Patagonia Wetsuits, Again
Its almost impossible to find any info online about Patagonia wetsuits. It’s so hard, that a random customer created a wetsuit web site for them. The site is bare bones, but allows you to view a 360vr of both the outside and inside. It also offers some info on the materials. Like the Matuse tops, these suits also mostly avoid petroleum and benefit from a resulting closed cell structure. A big thing missing from the site though, is a review. Everyone wants to know, are they worth the price? Do they rash you? How is it holding up?
I estimate the guy has $400 or so in the wetsuit and $400 to $800 dollars of billable time in making the site. That’s either some serious brand loyalty or a very sneaky guerilla marketing campaign. Given Patagonia’s stellar reputation and the fact the the photos on the site are pretty bad, I’m going with the latter former. EDIT: I fully ment the former here. Sorry!
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December 23rd, 2006 at 5:43 pm
Patagonia WetSuit mystery…
I’ve read on 70 percent a post about the Patagonia wetsuit. In this post, it is mentionned : I estimate the guy has $400 or so in the wetsuit and $400 to $800 dollars of billable time in making the…
December 23rd, 2006 at 6:01 pm
Hello, I answered on my blog (patagoniacs about the last question).
as far as I know, this is not a real viral marketing campaign, organised by Patagonia. Only people who like the brand …
Merry Christmas.
December 28th, 2006 at 6:10 pm
I got on the waiting list for a 3/3 full suit months ago.
I’ve heard good things but they might be too warm so I’m hoping when they get their 2/2’s (eQual to a normal 4/3 I’m told)
There’s talk out there about the rubber splitting on the cuffs but this was explained to me as customer mistreatment.
The rubber is super soft high Quality Japanese smoothy, for the most part, and can’t just be ripped on like any other.
A little care has to go into putting on the suit.
In Japan all the surfers use a plastic bag on their foot before putting through, as not to tear the soft material.
In my opinion a wetsuit just can’t be soft enough.
I’m all about the comfort and flex as well as the enviroment.
Hopefully I’ll get my suit someday and I’ll have some mo info.
January 1st, 2007 at 2:36 pm
and Happy New Year to all the readers of this blog and to Rob ! Thanks for posting good and interesting news !
Wish you all the best for 2007 !
January 4th, 2007 at 6:03 pm
Hey Rob,
I’m the random customer who created http://www.patagoniawetsuits.com. My name is Ali [http://www.alimills.com]. And, neither I nor the site have anything to do with Patagonia [http://www.patagonia.com]. I’m simply a customer who appreciates Patagonia’s products, values, and leadership, and I thought it’d be helpful for Patagonia and their surf customers if I shared what I’ve learned about the wetsuit since buying one last September (2006). The easiest way for me to do that was in the context of a simple (aka. bare bones) web page. Basically, I saw the opportunity to support a company that supports active people and the earth we’re active in and moved to give that company (Patagonia) my support.
My comments follow:
“A big thing missing from the site though, is a review.”
I didn’t post a review on the wetsuit because I didn’t feel that it was appropriate. It’s clear by the dearth of information that the suit isn’t being marketed. The fact that the suit can’t be bought online or in any US store besides Cardiff [http://www.patagonia.com/web/us/patagonia.go?assetid=5172] suggests that Patagonia isn’t even ready to mass produce it. My take (and this is only my opinion) is that the suit is still in the “beta” or “prototype” phase. I didn’t feel that it was appropriate to write a public review on a prototype. I do of course have opinions about the suit, and I sent a letter to Patagonia expressing them. The one thing I will say is that the suit feels stiff to me. I’m used to zipperless wetsuits, though, and it’s possible that all zippered suits would feel stiff. I’m never worn a zippered suit.
“…are they worth the price?”
That’s a good question. I paid $470 for the suit; at that price, I don’t know if it’s worth it. I imagine that time will tell. I can say that it’s kept me much warmer than my year old 4/3 suit while surfing in the San Francisco area this winter. The suit also does a great job of not flushing - what I consider the most critical job for a wetsuit.
“Do they rash you?”
The zipper rubs my neck. I haven’t rashed up because of it, but I do notice the zipper while paddling and it’s not comfortable. The wool lining, however, doesn’t rash me. It, surprisingly, isn’t really itchy either. I fear that the wool lining will absorb odor really quickly, though. In the time I’ve had my suit, the wool lining has already started to get stinky.
“How is it holding up?”
My suit isn’t holding up very well, but it’s a long story. I’ll make it short. I heard about the suit last summer, and I started researching it. After not finding any information online, I called Patagonia’s Cardiff store [http://www.patagonia.com/web/us/patagonia.go?assetid=5172] in September, talked to a super helpful sales guy, and decided to order the suit without ever seeing one. By the time the suit arrived, there still wasn’t any information online, so I decided to make a web page about it. But, since I don’t have a digital camera it took me until December to borrow a camera, talk my girlfriend into helping me with a photo shoot, Photoshop the images, and make the web page. So, it wasn’t until December 11th (my birthday) that I first wore the suit. Two days later, on December 13th, I took a head+ wave on the head that broke my 2 month old 6′6″ Merrick in half and tore a 4″ gash in the left bicep of my suit. One wave took out my new board and blew out my new suit. Well then, to answer the question of how my suit is holding up, it’s holding up poorly. It blew out the second day I wore it. To be fair, I suspect that the wave I took on the head would have blown out any suit. In addition to the blow out, I noticed the rubber splitting on the cuffs of my suit in the same way “warm jet” reports. My attitude on the splitting cuffs and the blown out suit are that it’s a prototype and the kinks will be worked out. I’ve since sent the suit back to Patagonia. I have been assured that it’ll be repaired or replaced.
“I estimate the guy has $400 or so in the wetsuit and $400 to $800 dollars of billable time in making the site. That’s either some serious brand loyalty or a very sneaky guerilla marketing campaign.”
Funny… I guess that I have serious brand loyalty. I spent $470 on the suit and about $800 of billable time making the site.
“…the fact the the photos on the site are pretty bad…”
I agree! The photos are pretty bad; sorry about that. I took them with a borrowed camera in poor light. My goal in making http://www.patagoniawetsuits.com was to help Patagonia and it’s customers by sharing information about the wetsuit. I could go back and clean up the images, the Photoshopping, the preloading, and add a discussion thread, but I don’t think any of that is really necessary. The images and Photoshopping serve the purpose, and other people’s discussion threads and blog comments seem to be working really well in place of a discussion thread on the site. On slow machines, the preloading bums me out, though. I may go back and address it.
“There’s talk out there about the rubber splitting on the cuffs but this was explained to me as customer mistreatment.”
I strongly disagree that rubber splitting on the cuffs is customer mistreatment. It’s bad design for a surf wetsuit. Surf wetsuits are not freedive wetsuits. Surf wetsuits need to be strong and withstand a pounding. It’s essential that they be durable. Freedive suits, on the other hand, don’t need to be nearly as durable. They just need to withstand swimming and getting in and out of the water. I’m comparing surf to freedive suits because the wrist and ankle cuffs (gaskets) on Patagonia’s surf wetsuit are based on the design of freedive suits which aren’t lined and are much more susceptible to wear and tear. To get into my freedive suit I have to lube up with soapy water. I can’t image the surf community being OK with lubing up to get into a wetsuit. And, plastic bags? Come on, this isn’t bouldering… Personally, I’d experiment with lining the gaskets with the same silicon that’s on the knees of the suit. Again, my take on take on the wetsuits is that they’re in the prototype stage, so I expect there to be kinks in the suit. This is one of those. My expectation is that this kink and all others would be worked out by the time the suits are marketed and sold online.
Whew! There you have it.
Have fun!
Ali
January 6th, 2007 at 1:35 pm
Whoa. Ali wins the award for the longest comment ever made on 70. Thanks for taking the time to post your experience with the suit. It’s good to hear Patagonia is taking care of you on this. This kind of customer care seems pretty standard for them.
I fully agree with your Beta comment. Most people I’ve talked to are cautiously waiting for a review just like this one, and/or version 2.0.
Personally, I’ve taken a great interest in non patroleum based suits. I’m stoked there are companies trying to solve this problem and I really hope they can work through the durability problems and give us a greenish suit that is reasonably water tight, holds up for a year or two and does’t smell bad when I eat lots of Sugar Smacks and pee in it.
January 23rd, 2007 at 2:58 pm
O.K.! I got my suit finally.
1st thing in reply to Ali; The customer mistreatment is a comment about people being careless about pulling hard on the soft rubber when suiting up!
I have one issue so far and it’s really a non so far; On the cuffs inside where the soft rubber meets the wool it’s glued and stitched yet not taped at all. This might be something they should do!
NOW! MY REPORT! This is THEE most comfortable and best fitting suit I’ve ever owned!
I have the 3/3 which is sooo warm I can’t wait to get it into some low 50’s. So far I’ve been in 55/ 56 degree am sessions with cold offshores and I’m super warm and cozy.
One of my concerns was the weight and flex issues.(when I 1st heard of the suit)
No more concerns! The suit is actually light and very flexy. (I would compare the flex to the oneil 3/3 yet I won’t be in 50 degree water in a 3/3!
For the AM session man, putting on the suit is like slipping on a terricloth bathrobe.
The water penetration is next to nothing and the little that makes it’s way is warmed by the wool instantly! The wonderful smoothy blocks any wind issues!
Granted I just got it, but this is the best suit I’ve ever owned.
I hope they make some simular bootys in the future!
I’m being careful with my suit when dressing because I respect the damn thing as a
a labor of love! Plus, what’s the damn hurry? I don’t think people should be getting new suits every year, especially when we don’t know what happens to all the wasted old ones?
PATAGONIA 3/3 SUIT; I GIVE 4 STARS!!!
WE’LL SEE HOW IT LASTS?
ps.( A wave ripped your suit apart Ali? A wave with teeth? hmmm!)
Remember a reason for the comfort and flex is the super soft rubber. I’ll take that over the odds of a wave tearing my suit!
Thanks,
WJ
January 23rd, 2007 at 4:24 pm
[…] Warmjet has posted his review of Patagonia’s 3/3 on my Patagonia Wetsuits, Again post. He also has a post with pics on his blog, The Central Shaft. Related Posts: […]
February 14th, 2007 at 12:15 am
Sonoma Cty surfer here with a 3/3 Regulator Wetsuit -
I’ve surfed Rip Curl Elasto, O’Neill Psycho 2, and a Body Glove Vapor. I have to give Patagonia the win for fit (subjective) and warmth. I found it to live up to the benefits touted. I have two gripes - the cuffs and the seams in general.
The Cuffs - Same problem. Splitting and tearing at the seams. I ordered out of the first batch to come into Cardiff, and within a month saw these splits show up. Being all excited about the suit (and after spending 470 on it), I have treated the suit well. Anyone saying “user-error” is completely off… the cuffs suck. Props to Patagonia being super cool about it… they sent me a new suit. Unfortunately, it’s doing the same thing.
The Seams - Glued and blindstitched. The suit is warm, that wool sure does the trick. However, those seams take it water after a few uses and gets a little chilly up here in Sonoma… maybe I’m too use to “Aquaban” rubber seam tape?
All around great suit… lots of potential… if they fix my two gripes, I might fork out cast for the 2MM suit as a summer suit. The guys at the Cardiff store claimed “this will be the only suit you’ll need for the next four years”… we’ll see :-P
Tim
February 26th, 2007 at 10:06 pm
East coast surfer’s wife here… After 16 years of daily surfing, we think Hubby has developed an allergy to neoprene… We are pretty sure it is from the newer blend used to make the super stretch (though this is just my best uneducated guess) since his heavy upper-arm rash did not start until using the Elastomax suit purchased last fall. Rash guards haven’t been enough to keep the distance.
We decided to search for polartec, and finally settled on (what we think is) the US version: Thermocline. It is really meant for diving, but it has 3 layers: fleece, membrane, and nylon (warmth equivalent to 2mm). Since wearing it under his 4/3, the rash has gone, but I can tell he is somewhat uncomfortable with the bunching and heat.
He saw info about the Regulator suit on FuelTV, and so I looked it up and eventually landed here. Maybe someone can give some insight, since all I really know is how much time, effort, and money has gone into this “Search for Relief”. While this quest is worth-while, all I can see is dollar signs and disappointment. After all the effort he’s put in to date, I’d hate to see him drop another $500 on a lost cause.
Any ideas as to whether or not the ingredients in this particular suit would save him from further suffering? I’d love to hear from anyone on the subject, especially if you have experienced the same problem and have found a solution.
Thanks in advance for your attention!
Julie
February 27th, 2007 at 12:08 am
[…] The Patagonia Wetsuits, Again thread just won’t die. It seems every few weeks someone finds the thread through a search or a link or written on a surfshop bathroom wall and stops by to leave a comment. 10 comments isn’t many, but add the fact that “patagonia wetsuit” is the fourth most searched term on 70 this month, and the Patagonia Wetsuits, Again thread is in the top 15 of all entry pages (out of about 500 or so) this month alone and you start to see what a hot topic these suits are. […]
February 28th, 2007 at 8:36 am
Official Info:
http://www.patagonia.com/web/us/product/shop/shop_landing.jsp?OPTION=WETSUITS_LANDING
March 11th, 2007 at 2:23 pm
Time to go see John Peck at the Cardiff store and see what’s up. As the reps repeated at the 80’s garment shows and asr’s gotta feel the piece goods.
March 26th, 2007 at 12:51 pm
Never heard of that brand before. Sounds as nice warm suits. Hopefully they become better available
April 1st, 2007 at 9:22 am
Yess! This thread will never die!
As I stated before I got the 3/3 version from the 1st generation.
Took forever, but it was worth it not only cuz it is the best fitting suit ever for me but
I have big respect for this company and there ethics with style!
To be honest my suit has been amazing but a seam did bust on the back.
very small and i fixed it myself eventhough Pat. offered up a brand new suit.
I did this because my inside info tells me that the #2 generation is on the way and that’s the one I’ll be trading for!
Also, I would love to go all Pat. for my suits but in L.A. summer even their 2/2 would be too warm, so i asked my buddy who works there and he says they’re working on a 1/2!!!!!!!!
WOW! If that works out, this will be the best ! 1mm arms with that wool wil be soooo flexy and warm yet not too…
I believe they’re committed to this wetsuit thing and I’m glad they are cuz I just hate the major surf companys and their lack of ethics!
The guy wearing his 3/3 in Sonoma is a great test to the warmth.
I’ve only got mine into 53 degree so far and my freaken boots were the only problem!
I wish they would nail that scene as well.
Big ‘ol hat tip to 70% for the link to my humble opinion !!!
Oh, the knee pads are the shit as well.
The pat wetsuit site is now happening with all the info.
I say spend the dough cuz you will not lose(the guarantee is tops), only gain for you and good things for real non coorperate surfing!
WJ
April 1st, 2007 at 7:07 pm
Hey Julie, I have the same problem as you hubby. I’m just getting started on finding a solution, having finally reached the point where the rashes are unbearable and getting worse and more often. I believe what I have is allergic contact dermatitis to an accelerator used in thre manufacture of neoprene, perhaps Dibutylthiourea.
I would gladly trade information with you and others so that we can get a solution. rayc@sonance.com. Good luck!
April 1st, 2007 at 7:12 pm
Just for clarification, the allergy is not from wearing a Patagonia suit. I’ve gotten them from Ripcurl and O’Neil suits. I’m looking for a suit with different materials.
July 17th, 2007 at 11:02 pm
In keeping with the idea that this thread refuses to die….This is the kind of customer loyalty that I continually see as a result of Patagonia products. Creating a website about a single product? It probably happens more often than I realize but still. Loved the response by Ali himself as well as the comment from Julie the “east coast surfer’s wife” who confessed that “Hubby has developed an allergy to neoprene”! Best wishes to everyone at 70.
July 23rd, 2007 at 3:21 am
Hi all,
Thanks for your posts… I going to San Diego this summer, coming from France, I’m planning on getting as much surfing gear I can given the low $/€ rate.
I dig this brand and their products. You all mention these suits being in beta stage. But this August, they would have been out for a while… Any improvement expected?
Thanks
August 23rd, 2007 at 6:56 am
Just got back…
Well, California is great! Apart for the lack of waves… I got myself the Pata wetsuit… Haven’t tried it yet, but the seams look strong. Putting it on wasn’t so easy compared to my old O’Neill… Maybe because it’s brand new…
I also got a Matuse top… and 2 nice boards… No wave = more shopping.
September 3rd, 2007 at 8:32 am
How do I order one to Canada?
September 5th, 2007 at 5:40 pm
Awesome wetsuit! if you have an extra $500.
September 8th, 2007 at 10:46 pm
how much? Does anyone have a price break down? All i have seen is $470 for the 3/3. Are they releasing an 07/08 line?
September 10th, 2007 at 8:47 am
how much it cost for 2/2 ?
September 10th, 2007 at 3:17 pm
just went to the shop on 9/8. the 2/2 is 450+tax. the sales guy had a good narrative on the product. it is a steep price for a fullsuit, but the best suit i’ve had to date is a hotline and i paid over 3bills five years ago for that suit. i’m now using the quiksilver cell and the concept of 3 panels is a great idea, but this concept requires stretchy neoprene and their material really gets cut by the wind (i have the 4/3). fyi, i put my name on a list to be notified for a new front zip model coming out soon……..
September 15th, 2007 at 8:04 am
[…] Patagonia’s Regulator (see Ali Mills’s comments) and a review of Body Glove’s Bio Stretch. […]
September 15th, 2007 at 8:16 am
[…] Patagonia’s Regulator (see Ali Mills’s comments) and a review of Body Glove’s Bio Stretch. […]
September 24th, 2007 at 8:26 am
Great info on the Patagonia wet suit. I splurged and bought one in May. I found it to be very warm and very comfortable. The best wetsuit I have had in warmth, stretch and comfort. Its actually too warm right now in NYC. I cant remember if I bought the thinner or thicker one. Does anyone know how to find that info on the suit itself???
My problem with the suit is not the warmth of course…… here are my problems ….
Rashes. I get a rash on the back of my neck and ….on my butt. Not sure what to attribute this to except maybe the zipper and the wool. I have gotten rashes in the past behind my arm pits and neck, but never my butt. Rash guard ointment seems to solve the problem though.
The other problem is one of the seams beneath my stomach has pulled apart. Note that I dont have a big gut that is stretching it out. This happened after only five or so days of use.
I have contacted Patagonia and they said I could exchange it or return for a full refund.
Great customer service of course. I am just hesitant to get another right now. I was very excited to be buying a progressive suit, despite the price tag. But if it does not hold up, I dont want to spend that kind of money.
October 11th, 2007 at 11:36 am
Seems kinda like the iPhone. It might be best to wait until version 2.0 to spend the money but more than worth it at that time. I’m a huge Patagonia fan, so it definitly going to be my next suit. Thanks to everyone for the reviews…
October 11th, 2007 at 2:50 pm
I hear the v2 front zip is going to be insane. I’ll try to get some inside info!
October 15th, 2007 at 3:56 pm
Best wetsuit I have ever owned. I live up in Ventura and right now my 2 mm is still almost too warm. I wore it down in SD this weekend and I was sweating. I’ve been wearing it a little over a month and it is just now getting broke in to the point where it feels incredibly comfortable stretchy wise.
If it last the two years it’s guaranteed for, I will have spent less cash than the one year I have been getting out of my psycho 2’s.
So far, best suit ever. My last 4 wetsuits have been psycho 2’s.
October 20th, 2007 at 8:22 am
I’ve finally tried it!
The water wasn’t so cold, so I can’t really say if it’s really warm. It really felt warm, but the water was around 18 deg Celsius. What I can say though is that it’s very very comfy. I showed it to a friend of mine who runs a surf shop and who sells rip curls suits. He was very impressed by the fabric and very impressed by the quality of the seams.
I’m very happy with that suit so far, and will try it again soon on the 1st of November in Biarritz. I’ll let you know….
October 25th, 2007 at 11:40 am
Just spoke to the dude at the SF Patagonia store and asked him about the fron-zip suit I saw in the November Transworld Surf mag. Said he had not heard anything at all about it. I tried the back zip and loved the way it felt, but I have been using a front zip all summer and love the way it keeps water from flushing. Transworld said to expect the front zip for Winter 07.
Also asked him about wool stink. Some people have said their Patty wool suits smell like an open grave. Patty guy said that wool doesn’t stink (or at least Patagonia’s doesn’t). Anyone experiencing Patagonia Wetsuit Funk?
October 25th, 2007 at 11:42 am
The front zip is coming. I’ve heard Nov. 15th, but the tops were about a month late. I’m working on getting some images and further info on the suites from some friends. Stay tuned…
October 26th, 2007 at 1:17 pm
Scott, the one and only time I ever had a problem with “funk” was the time I left my Pad suit in the tub with my booties and had the lid on it tight, overnight. Other than that, I rinse it and hang it dry every evening when I get home. It’s funny, I paid more for it, so I take much better care of it to try and make it last longer.
October 26th, 2007 at 2:43 pm
The Patty guy also said that some people just smell no matter what the fiber. I have an Orca triathlon wetsuit that I paid quite a lot for and it has some of the softest rubber I have ever felt. I *need* to take good care of that one because it is more delicate. If I dropped $500 then I would definetly take good care of it.
My wetsuits and booties don’t stink. Guess I’m lucky.
Can’t wait for that chest-zip!
November 6th, 2007 at 4:06 pm
OK, so I’ve tried the suit in colder water… The water was 15 degrees (59 F) this WE in SW France and 9 (48 F) outside. I stayed 3 hours in the water until it got too dark to see. It’s warm. I have the R2. It’s not 4/3 warmth, but it’s kind of warmer than a 3/2 suits. And still very comfy. So, yes it’s a very good product.
November 6th, 2007 at 8:44 pm
I have a 2 mil and live in Ventura. It is an excellent wetsuit and really comfortable! So easy to get on and off. On very cold mornings I wear hood and booties and I might get through all winter like this. If not, i will buy a 3 mil—they are THAT good a suit!
November 8th, 2007 at 12:49 pm
Yep. I live in Ventura as well and I’m still toasty as of this morning. Paddled out at 6 am as usual and I was very warm (with booties).
Very toasty. Stoked still.
November 8th, 2007 at 1:18 pm
Apparently Patagonia are 6-8 months out (according to guy at store) with regards to the front zip. I really liked my RipCurl front zip since it didn’t flush with water like my Oneill Psycho2 backzip did. However, the 7month old RipCurl decided that the inside liquid seams would be better off rotting out so I have RMAd that suit and am back to looking at the Patty backzip suit.
I really like chestzips, but don’t think I can wait 6-8 months before they come out. What do people think of the backzip and water flushing?
November 8th, 2007 at 1:29 pm
Scott, I think 6-8 months is incorrect. A bro in the store at Patagonia Cardiff told me the suits have hit Reno and are in quality control right now.
November 8th, 2007 at 2:18 pm
Rob
I hope your Patty guy is more in the know than my Patty guy - I want that front-zip! Tell your Patty guy that I am more than willing to put that front-zip through it paces up here in Norcal!
I’ll keep holding off until December…
November 9th, 2007 at 6:27 pm
I got my R3 Fullsuit last week and have been in the water 5 times so far with it in Santa Cruz->Lindamar.
Best piece of Patagonia gear I’ve ever had. Amazingly warm, lots of mobility.
Has anyone found images or news on the dates for booties,mitts,front zips or suits with hoods that they can post? Seems like the website isn’t dropping any hints.
November 15th, 2007 at 5:20 pm
I live here on the east coast and am looking for a new wetsuit. I’m interested in the R2 or R3 suits by Patagonia. Anyone have information on thickness of these and which might be better?
Thanks!
November 17th, 2007 at 10:20 pm
The R2, which I have had for about 2 months and have been surfing in Ventura with is a 2mm suit throughout, but keeps you as warm or warmer than a 3/2 and at the same time is much more flexible feeling. I highly recommend it and am anxiously awaiting booties which will hopefully be out soon, sorry no hard dates yet, just heard ’soon’.
November 19th, 2007 at 1:58 pm
Spoke with the Cardiff store and they expect the front-zip suits before X-mas. There’s already a waiting list. They’re not sure what mm thicknesses they’ll receive.
November 24th, 2007 at 11:01 am
HOUND- I would say the R3 would be best for the east coast from June/July until about September, the specs say it keeps you warm in temps from 48-55 Degrees.
You’d probaly need to wait for the 5mm hooded suits if your in the water allot in the winter or in up in NH & Maine.
You could call some local shops where you surf and find out what the average water temps are for those breaks during different times of the year.
There is probaly even a website that does somethings like this on a chart or something, but not a clue where it would be.
Go to Patagonia.com then to Wetsuits for more info on specs and water temps.
Also the folks at the service center know quite a bit ( 1-888-501-7311) and the San Francisco and Portland Store have been really helpful when I’ve had questions about the suits.
Good Luck.
November 24th, 2007 at 11:18 am
If you are wearing a wetsuit in June or July on the East Coast, you must mean the east coast of Greenland or maybe Iceland. New York was in boardshorts until October.
November 26th, 2007 at 8:45 pm
hound Says:
November 15th, 2007 at 5:20 pm
I live here on the east coast and am looking for a new wetsuit. I’m interested in the R2 or R3 suits by Patagonia. Anyone have information on thickness of these and which might be better?
Thanks!
HOUND,
Water Temps vary a bit from New York->Maine. You may just need board shorts in the summer if your in NY as Rob pointed out, or something like the R2 if your up in Northern New England in the waters of Maine.
I’d just do some homework by talking to some local shops to figure out the water temps during different seasons and use that info with the website.
I love my R3 and the waters in NorCal have been in the mid to low 50’s.
November 26th, 2007 at 8:49 pm
Thanks for clarifying Jack. I forget that people surf regularly all the way up to Canada and beyond.
December 3rd, 2007 at 5:31 pm
Hi,
My wife and I just went to the SF patagonia store yesterday. She bought me one of their new R3 (3mm) wetsuits. They had a few in stock as they said they got some in stock for the holidays. there were also women’s models I believe. I haven’t got to try the suit yet.
-Ben
December 4th, 2007 at 3:21 pm
Hmmm… December and I’m still grooving on the 2mm up here in South Ventrua. Water is 55-58ish. I have needed to wear booties for the past couple of months. For the first time I needed to sport a cap for my DP this morning, but it kept my core warm and by 8 am I felt hot.
I really thought that I would start getting cold by now.
Wow. Still very impressed. :) Stoked.
December 4th, 2007 at 6:56 pm
21 days and a wake-up til Christmas! Any news on the chest-zips?
December 8th, 2007 at 9:57 pm
still in my 2mm in SB and plenty warm. cold water starts late Jan - april or so .Waiting for a 3mm front sip for then.
December 10th, 2007 at 6:23 pm
front zips out now at cardiff store. look insane. heard more of a performance suit then the back zip. not quite as warm because it does not have all the windproof smoothie rubber as the back zip. different wool lining on the arms and a pull over gasket as well as the gasket that zips.
killer.
December 11th, 2007 at 12:46 pm
price? Pics? I had seen some earlier pics in Transworld Surf and the front zip looked like it was not as rubber-y as the back zip. That’s unfortunate but I am still stoked about it. I was hoping it would be just as windproof as the backzip.
I prefer front zips because I tend to get water flushing thru the back of the neck with back-zips.
I called Patagonia SF and they were like, “We have no clue!”
December 11th, 2007 at 12:51 pm
Pics and review coming when I get more water time in mine. I can tell you though they are pretty windproof without the rubber on the arms. I didn’t feel any wind with an offshore breeze at about 10 knots the other night.
December 11th, 2007 at 2:25 pm
Is it just the arms that are not covered in rubber?
December 11th, 2007 at 2:33 pm
Well, it was just as easy to pick up the phone and find out some deets:
1. They only have the R2 available right now and that is going for $530
2. The chest portion is the only part that has the windproof slickskin
3. Fully lined like the backzip but the arms integrate the wool into the neoprene. Supposed to make the suit more flexible
4. No clue on when the R3 will be available or what the price will be
5. Look to the Patty website for updates (none yet, but she said it should be updated shortly)
December 12th, 2007 at 4:46 pm
Just noticed that the Patty website has some pics and specs for the Chest-Zip now. Looks kind of like an XCel style… I want…
Striped wool lines arms, shoulders and knees for warmth and flexibility; grid wool lines the rest of the suit for maximum heat retention
Both wool patterns (striped and grid) are blended with recycled polyester to better insulate, wick moisture away from your skin and dry quickly
Smoothskin exterior on chest, back and hips results in greater warmth by eliminating evaporative cooling in windy conditions
December 17th, 2007 at 9:38 pm
Ok,OK, UNCLE!! My 2mm is now cold. 52F is too cold for the 2mm so I bought a 3mm! hahahaha
December 28th, 2007 at 3:15 pm
Hmmm… 6 am… the car temp gage said 37, and the water temp on the LA County beach web site said the water temp was 51.
Still in my 2mm. From 6:15ish to 8. No problems.
My feet were a little cold towards the end.
Okay, I was in booties and a hoodie as well.
What can I say? The offshore breezes were cold this morning. :)
December 28th, 2007 at 7:20 pm
I hear ya ,I could get by with the 2 mm but this 3mm is like wearing a down parka!
December 31st, 2007 at 12:14 pm
Anyone have a review of the chest-zip yet? Also, anyone with the back zip have any problems with water flushing? Maybe it has to do with my pencil neck, but I seem to have better luck staying dry with a chesty instead of the back zip…
December 31st, 2007 at 5:06 pm
The pat wetsuits have less flushing of any wetsuit I have had in 45 yrs. This new 3mm is so warm in 52 F water
December 31st, 2007 at 5:19 pm
Otisfish - is that 3mm a chest or backzip?
December 31st, 2007 at 7:47 pm
back zip. So nice to be warm in cold water and still flexible.
January 7th, 2008 at 11:48 am
Is there any way that these suits can be ordered from the UK?
January 16th, 2008 at 1:29 am
SF STORE HAS ACCESSORIES IN!- BOOTIES, HOODS, AND MITTS…
JUST GOT THE HOOD, 3MM LINED WITH WOOL AND FEELS LIKE IT WILL BE SUPER TOASTY…
January 16th, 2008 at 11:50 pm
Talked to SF Patty Dude and he said that the chest-zip wetties had been recalled. Something about the wool lining on the top.
I guess this means that the 3mm chest-zip is gonna get pushed waaay back. Oh well. Time to get the back-zip.
January 17th, 2008 at 6:13 am
The hood, mitts and boots..?
All lined with wool?
Any webviews of items, can’t find online info.
All 3mm? boots too 3mm?
January 19th, 2008 at 2:09 am
Hood, mitts and booties all fully lined. The boots look similar to the Oneill Ninja 3mm without the velcro shin strap at the top. No cinch-down straps over the arch either, just smooth rubber slickskin covering the *entire* boot.
Split toe design at 3mm. Since they have no velcro straps they felt a bit loose so the Patty guy suggested that I size down from my typical Oneill Superfreak 9s. I went all the way down to a Patagonia 7! Price was $50 for the 7’s and $60 for 8 and up - go figure. All exterior seams appear to be fully rubber taped.
Hood looks very similar to the Oneill 3mm Squid Lid. Once again, fully wool-lined with the rubber slick-skin exterior.
Gloves look like gloves. Fully wool-lined with the rubber slick-skin exterior.
I just bought the boots and will give them a go tomorrow. The lid looked like it would irritate the underside of my neck so I left it. Gloves, now those looked like they would be nice - very flexible. I hate wearing gloves, burn out my shoulders so I left those too.
January 20th, 2008 at 10:03 pm
I just bought one of the back zips at the SF store and it looks good. But I would dispute the 3mm claim. The rubber might be 3mm but with the wool lining it feels like a thick four mil suit. I will say that, to me, the stitching, glue on the seams and other areas of craftsmanship looks good. Now I just have to wait for the surf to get good so I can see how it well it performs.
January 21st, 2008 at 6:11 pm
Used the suit on the Sonoma coast today Air 47 degrees, water 51, and I was warm! I think I’ll keep it. As an added bonus the waves good.
January 25th, 2008 at 7:51 am
I received the 3mm hood, 3mm gloves and the 5mm boots, all lined with polyester. I wear a 11 1/2 wide shoe and the size 12 boots fit fine no squeeze-cramping.
Just snowed last nite LOW off the Coast …try em this weekend water 41 South Jersey USA.
January 30th, 2008 at 11:56 am
Is anyone a little uncomfortable with wool rubbing on your genitalia? I am thinking of wearing speedos because it’s a little too sensitive for wool down there. Don’t know if I want to put up with the harassment, any suggestions? Any thoughts, any anecdotes, any canter?
January 30th, 2008 at 2:07 pm
Blair -
I have wondered that myself. I typically go commando in my wettie and whilst trying on the Patty Wettie (I didn’t go commando in the Patty dressing room) I did notice that the wool seams appeared to be a little more coarse than those of say RipCurl or Oneill.
My bits and pieces were covered but afterwards I did feel slightly itchy down the sides of my legs and back. My guess is that the suit ‘breaks in’ after a few sessions and the coarsness of the seams goes away.
I’m still waiting for my size to come in now that the chestzip has been delayed until the end of the year.
January 30th, 2008 at 3:59 pm
My new suit’s maiden voyage was this morning and although it was a little scratchy, my boys were warmer. I guess that’s most important.
But I don’t want to get all rashed up, I may have to wear speedies at least for a few break-in sessions.
Still, I couldn’t help but think that this was how the members of Opus Dei go about their day or even Matt Talbot did, wearing their hair shirts or wool skivies for penance. Silly Cat-licks, scratchy underwear is for wetsuits!
February 7th, 2008 at 2:38 pm
Just curious, but has anyone compared the Patty wettie and Nineplus’ Lotus Steamer? I just tried on a Lotus and it was very nice. Biggest differences are: Lotus is almost all slickskin (little patch of neoprene in the crotch and on the knees), Lotus is 3/2mm but does not have the wool lining. Lotus just also happens to be $285!!
February 7th, 2008 at 9:23 pm
Wow, so very interesting to read how the comments on this blog entry have evolved. Started out with trying to uncover the mystery of the Patagonia wetsuit to reviewing its effectiveness/comfort. Nice to see a forum develop here.
February 7th, 2008 at 9:33 pm
Liveswithmom,
Did you try that suit on somewhere in Northern California? I looked at their suits online and they said it was for a little bit warmer water than we get in Northern California, except for a few times in the fall.
February 8th, 2008 at 1:45 pm
ct
I talked to the guys at mollusksurfshop here in San Francisco and he said that a bunch of guys have been buying the Nineplus in 3/2 and have been just fine surfing up here. I also spoke to a guy down south at Shelter and he said he is plenty warm in his 3/2 and they are getting temps in the 54/55 range. He also said the closed-cell nature of the slickskin keeps the wind out which allows you to hold on to body heat.
I’m intrigued, especially with the fuller coverage of slickskin (Patty is just the top half) and the price. The Nineplus was superflexy, just like the Patty wettie. I also think the neck is ‘taller’ on the Nineplus which I think would help create a better seal against flushing. Felt similar to my Ripcurl chestzip neck gasket.
Nineplus is also Yammato rubber which is the same rubber used in my Orca triathlon wettie - that is some *sweet* rubber!
February 11th, 2008 at 8:58 am
Has anyone given the patagonia 5mm split toes a try? We surf water in the 40F range here on lake superior at this time of year and i have found the 7mm xcels to be the weak link in a session…all be it, they are starting to compress and are over a year old now. Anyways, looking for new boots and am interested in the pats….any commentary would be good.
peace
e
February 12th, 2008 at 10:28 am
5MM SPLIT TOES
February 12th, 2008 at 10:37 am
5mm Split Toes:
I have used my new 5mm Paagonia split toes past two weekends.
I’m was a mid 1960’s lake Erie surfer, I know cold water too.
South Jersey/Atlantic water is still upper 30’s maybe even 40 last Sunday. 40mph winds
After an hour and a half I was still warm feet. I think they are gerat!
They seal tight, no seam seepage yet, but they are new! with my wetsuit pulled over em my feet didn’t even get wet for quite a while. My concern here is wood slivers from the boardwalk walkin to the beach.
Gloves 3mm my hands have not gotten cold yet.
But our water isn’t 33/34 degrees.
February 12th, 2008 at 1:40 pm
geno…thanks for the DL. Just before reading your post i decided i’d give it a go and order up these boots to give them a try out on the lake, we’ll see how they work.
peace
e
February 13th, 2008 at 6:50 am
I don’t know what is up with the Patagonia web site.
Last week you could order and view the wetsuits, boots, gloves, hood online and complete the purchase online. Now all that is gone. I had ordered my gloves/boots from the Portland store via a phone call. They were were nice and I had the stuff in a week UPS ground.
February 13th, 2008 at 9:51 pm
Liveswithmom,
Thanks for the reply. I thought I return the favor and let you know that the
Nineplus website had hooded five mm suits for half off about a week ago.
February 15th, 2008 at 4:07 pm
CT
Thanks! I just got a 3/2mm from Shelter delivered in the mail today. Perhaps if it isn’t all blown out this weekend I will give it a go down at Linda Mar. Its a beautiful piece of solid rubber…
February 18th, 2008 at 6:10 pm
So I just got back from a session at Linda Mar up here in balmy NorCal. Water temp was brisk 49F - yeah…49. I used my dive watch to measure it. I wore my new Nineplus 3/2 (decided I couldn’t keep waiting for the SF Pat store to get my size in) and was actually quite warm. Only thing I would change would be the wrist and ankle opening - a bit too wide for my tastes.
I know this is a Patagonia thread so I’ll mention something Patty:
I’m not sure how those Patty Booties are doing. I was at SF Pat today looking for a size 8 and the only pair they had was a used return (yech). I guess you could say that they are doing well since they don’t have a lot of sizes… I was chatting with another surfer who just bought a wettie. He was a big guy and had just tried on a pair of 3mm and 5mm booties. He was disappointed - said they fit too wide - I have the same problem. Patty could have a great product on thier hands with these booties if they narrowed up the fit a little bit and added a cinch strap… anyone else think the booties fit too wide?
February 18th, 2008 at 6:30 pm
tried them on today. too wide.
February 19th, 2008 at 6:29 am
Split toe boots 5mm.
I posted last Jan 25th - I got the size 12 - 5mm split toes. I wear a WIDE 11 1/2 to a 12 wide shoe and the size 12 bootie fit me PERFECT. My problem has asways been finding wet suit boots that don’t create cramped feet. I just ordred a second set for back-up since I like em so much. As far as more straps??? Not in my wish list-my wet suit rolls over the top of the boots and seals em in. a strap would create a sore spot/pressure spot with the leg rolled over it.
My feet even stay dry for the first hour in 40 degree water. I had a super leg flush the other day but my boots didn’t pickup water only a spoon fulll after a couple hours out.
I bought sight-un-seen, took a chance and since Patagonia is so goood on returns. If you have a narrow foot might as always recommened try em on….
February 19th, 2008 at 12:28 pm
I think an arch strap or a heel strap would lock the width down. Or Patty could just make narrower ones - rubber stretches, right? I felt like I was floating around in them.
Now I heard a different thing about the Patty return policy. When I went the first time the guy told me: if you wear them out surfing, you bought them and we won’t accept a return… when I went yesterday looking for a size 8, they gave me a used pair. I guess Patty’s 100% satisfaction guarantee is 100%?
February 19th, 2008 at 1:41 pm
They should have given you a used pair for free ! Used PAIR?
Did you try a size 7
I’ve wide feet - works out for me-Oneils hurt when I tried them on even the non split toes. I’ve had scuba diving neoprene dive boots which cut off the blood and caused cramps to my legs and feet.
I’d never again depend on thinking neoprne stretches - if they don’t fit at first - first try on ——– let em go! others makes might fit better.
February 19th, 2008 at 3:45 pm
Yeah, tried the 7 but my toes were slightly arched and that had foot cramp written all over it. I had the bright idea of perhaps getting a women’s bootie thinking that they should be cut narrower. Just called Patty guy and he said booties are unisex so no dice on getting anything tighter.
I have a pair of Oneill Superfreaks that fit fine, but they are starting to leak. I really like the Patty ones, but dangit, I got them narrow feet!
February 21st, 2008 at 3:10 pm
Few questions.
1. Has it been tested in extreme cold?
Certainly Norcal and Ireland are cold water, but they are maritime climates and rarely get below freezing. Cold water isn’t the problem on the East Coast. The problem here is that the water is 40 degrees and the air is in the teens.
2. Does the 4mm come with an attached hood?
I’ll believe in them when I see one of those Malloys or who have you out at a North East break wearing a Patagonia suit in a snowstorm. Norcal isn’t cold, Nova Scotia is cold.
February 22nd, 2008 at 9:30 am
extreme cold water trial of R4 booties
Ordered up a pair of the new R4 booties to give a try here on lake superior. I have been having serious problems keeping my feet warm in 7mm xcel booties + neoprene socks. New booties arrived yesterday, along with some decent waves. Air temp= 16F (-8.8C); water temp=36F; winds from the SW 30knots (windchill factor likely -20C. (Not the coldest we’ve surfed around here). Got in a late afternoon/evening session of about 2.5 hours. Verdict: warm feet from beginning to end, when normally i would have been walking on frozen stumps after and hour and a half. All be it, it was a pretty active session with lots of paddling and having to walk 150yards back up the shore to the put-in, due to the strong current. My feet are a size 10 and i ordered size 10, but the size 9 may have been more appropriate. At rate, killer booties. If they come out with an r4 suit, i would be signing up for one today.
take it for what its worth. peace
e
February 22nd, 2008 at 2:01 pm
Wondering if anyone has surfed winter East Coast, or below Cal 50’s water with the Patagonia fullsuits. Especially would be helpful if someone could post a review if they are especially sensitive to cold water… a.k.a. “a wuss.” I’ve gotten hypothermia a couple times in the past and am now extra sensitive to the cold. Thanks.
February 26th, 2008 at 3:34 pm
I wear a size 10 to 10 1/2 shoe depending on the make. I remember when I use to cram my feet into the Oneill TopOtheLine booties and it would be a size 8. Then the superfreak came out and I could go to a size 9. Cool. I tried on (and purchased) a size 7 last week. They fit perfectly. The rubber is stretching like a glove. I couldn’t believe it. Neither could the guy behind the counter. I’ve worn them a half dozen times in water in the low 50’s and I am stoked with the 3mm. My 3mm superfreaks (only a few months old) were allowing my feet to start gettin cold after I was out there for over an hour. Now I don’t even notice the cold at all. Nada. No cold.
So great. So worth the 50 bucks. Go small. They stretch out nicely.
February 26th, 2008 at 3:36 pm
Oops. Just read my post. I purchased a size 7 Padagonia bootie.
Those fit super snug. Perfectly.
February 26th, 2008 at 10:07 pm
Mo_Fo
Wow! Size 10 squeezed into a Patty 7? Hmmmm… I may need to look at them again if you say that the rubber stretched out. I’m an 8.5 and the 7 had me toes just a wee bit arched and I was afraid of cramping.
Just in case people were still holding out for the Patty Chest Zip: Cardiff called me last week and said that they went back to the design room and the Chesty won’t be out until towards the end of the year…
February 27th, 2008 at 7:04 am
You purchased the R-3 split toe booties ???? … with 3mm neoprene?
They must streath a bit more than my R-4 5mm booties - which do give and flex a bit. I’ve heard and read Patagonia’s neoprene isn’t a stretchable as some other makers stufff?
I’m not near a dealer to try on a Patagonia full R-2/R-3 Suit
I’ve been on the wait list for a R3 3-mm back zip full suit
QUESTION:
Any one try on (or use) and compare the flex and give to a R-3 3-mm full suit vs a R-2 2mm full suit?
I may go with a 2mm R-2 suit ( site PAtagoina says 55-65 degrees F) the Patagoina wool/poly liner keeps my gloves and boots warm ( it seems) hows the wool liner in the 2mm warmth ?
I have a few thick suits for sub freezing weather spent $220 for a 6/5/4 hooded which stretches but it is and will be a 6mm feeling suit
March 4th, 2008 at 9:48 am
Yeah, no kidding about the stretch on the R-3 booties. I wear them about every morning right now and they are great. They streatched out nicely and fit incredibly comfortable. Yeah.. size 7. Over 3 sizes smaller than my normal shoe size. Fit like a glove and not tight at all. Snug is the best word to describe it. And so warm.
March 19th, 2008 at 10:57 am
I’ve got a 3mm and a 2mm Patty suit. I live in central Cal and have beem mostly wearing the 2mm suit for part of last winter and all of this winter. Even the other day when the water dropped down to 50 or 51, I was fine in the 2mm with the 3mm booties and hood.
The 3mm full is too warm for me most of the time. I’m seriously hot in it! It’s a nice suit, but man, I just cook. It feels a little stiff too (like a 5/3) whereas the 2mm feels like a nice soft 3mm normal suit.
After 1 1/2 winters, the 2mm is starting to show some signs of wear. I called up the Patty guys and they said to bring it on in and they would fix it. I don’t know how long it’s going to take to get fixed, so I’m going to try to hold out a bit longer before sending it in. Will report back on what transpires once I send it in.
March 27th, 2008 at 12:21 pm
Nico
What kind of ‘wear’ is your 2mm showing? How are the seams holding up? Does the wool smell? Is the wool still a grid or is it starting to get all frayed?
April 1st, 2008 at 7:43 am
I got the 2mm gloves and the 5mm booties for surf here in Oregon. Which is indeed cold water.
After 3 sessions, my right glove has a big hole in the palm. Not on a seam.
The booties (which I bought in size 7, and I wear a 9.5) fit perfect and kept my feet really toasty after a 3-hour session.
I have to say that the booties and gloves are both incredibly flexible, easy to get on, and really grippy (not sure if anybody mentioned that).
Now, we’ll have to see about Patagonia’s famed warranty/return policy on the gloves. My only other complaint is that the wool doesn’t dry out inside the gloves or booties unless you turn them inside out. Turning them inside out takes around 10 minutes, which sucks when you just want to rinse your wetsuit and go to bed.
I too am waiting for the hooded front zip (I’m due for a new suit soon, though). But I’m glad Patagonia isn’t releasing them until they work out the kinks. When they do, I hope the suit has slick skin on the top panels for wind this time and that they use a slightly tougher mix of rubber compound.
April 2nd, 2008 at 3:14 pm
You should get some of those boot and glove dryers made for ski cabins. Or move to Hawaii.
April 7th, 2008 at 11:14 am
I never turn my boots gloves inside out, just leave em with the opening pointed down and by morning all the moisture will roll down to the inside fabric on the rim of the opening.
My wall rack has pegs I balance the boots and gloves on the pegs with the entry opening down, water drips out, rim - might be damp in morning around the opening.
When I pull em off, they do start to turn inside out, just let em fill with water and hold the entry hole shut and gently squeeze and allow the “slight” hydro pressure inside to return the glove/bootie to normal (right side out), easier than picking and trying to grab the ends of fingers. Or risk damaging pop-out a sealed seam by blowing em up like a ballon.
My shower room is warm and dry by morning, might depend where you leave em.
April 7th, 2008 at 1:11 pm
geno,
I wear my gonia booties at least five to seven times a week, I rinse them just about after ever sesh and at least once a week I turn them almost completly inside out to air them. This is actually REALLY easy to do with these soft rubber booties. Something I would have never done with my Superfreaks that I wore for years before these. It airs them out nicely. Otherwise, that wool will get some funk. I mean, unless yours smell like roses all the time, lol.
I never had a problem with doing this. In fact I think drying them all the way out and airing them has to be good for the wool. Dark moist wool HAS to collect some funk if you don’t, I believe.
I’m stoked to be back in the R2 again. I had to lay off it and go with a slightly thicker suit for Jan-mid March here in Ventura.
April 8th, 2008 at 9:08 am
liveswithmom,
so far all the seams are still holding up fine, as is the wool grid. no fraying, no stink. i’m pretty careful with my suit and always rinse it, hang it in the shade, etc. i turn booties inside out after most sessions so they don’t stink either; i haven’t found it to be too difficult.
the wear i’m seeing on the 2mm suit is principally in the smoothie under the arms near where the smoothie and non-smoothie armpit panels meet. the best i can guess is that it is from a lot of paddling; basically a chafing action that over time has worn partially through the smoothie to begin to expose the wool grid. a similar wearing is ocurring on the neck flap that closes up the neck of the suit… i have no clue what that is from though.
there’s a few other minor spots where the smoothie is starting to look a little distressed (on top of the shoulders and just above the knees) that I think are either from sun exposure or paddling again. also, i found the drain holes at the bottom of the back are tearing slightly larger.
overall, i love the suit but i’m beginning to be a little concerned about the long-term durability. getting 2 or even 3 seasons out of a suit is not unheard of for me, so i expected the Patty suits to go even further without problems. Patty guys said it could all be fixed and that it would take about a month; apparently they do the repairs somewhere in LA. i’ll probably send it in soon and see what happens. will post back here with the results.
April 9th, 2008 at 8:53 am
Boots and gloves seem to be tough - I think my sauna in my shower room acts like a drier keeping the humidity down, stuff dries quick in that warm room.
I’ve ruined scuba gloves flippin em inside out = paranoia… Patagonia gloves arn’t cheap but they work!!!!
I’m still waithing for my Patagonia suit. 2or3mm whatever XL tall comes in first. Any word you have heard on “tall” suits arriving?
Speak of a few seasons on a suit my 1989 O’Neill ANIMAL is still in mint shape goin on 20years old. (it’s not a tall and I don’t wear it much) looks good! Kind of a museum piece now
May 6th, 2008 at 9:57 pm
this may answer some questions…
http://www.thecleanestline.com/2008/05/green-neoprene.html#more